tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2102451431033041663.post4567194873453643192..comments2024-03-28T21:08:32.637+05:30Comments on Tomichan Matheikal's blog: Truth is BeautyTomichan Matheikalhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05037872309096060126noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2102451431033041663.post-17709286734568295672013-01-27T12:52:45.026+05:302013-01-27T12:52:45.026+05:30Uma, you've just put very poetically what I ha...Uma, you've just put very poetically what I have said rather prosaically. You've understood exactly what I meant to say. I could have brought a lot of science to say the same thing. For example, there are scientists who have studied cognition and consciousness to such an extent as to say: "The world everyone sees is not THE world but A world, which we bring forth with others" (Maturana and Varela, 'The Tree of Knowledge, 1987). Scientist-turned mystic (as I describe him) Fritjof Capra argues that "Sprituality ... is a direct, non-intellectual experience of reality..." ('The Hidden Connections').<br /><br />I tend to avoid such scientific approaches simply because I believe that people can understand those things more easily with the help of literature and art, and also religion if people know how to use these things. <br /><br />Thanks for sharing your thoughts.Tomichan Matheikalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05037872309096060126noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2102451431033041663.post-87276985480533453702013-01-27T10:32:57.117+05:302013-01-27T10:32:57.117+05:30Thank you for quoting Bulgakov and Keats -you made...Thank you for quoting Bulgakov and Keats -you made my day! I can see an interesting discussion above but I have no heart to be a part of it. To me the truth lies in the nightingale's song that was heard by the queens and emperors before. It lies in the figurines of the Grecian urn that tell about tales of ambition turning to ash one day. The truth lies in a dog's heart and we will never know its intensity till we turn it into a man. And the truth lies in a man's mind but we will never know its rabidness till we turn him into a dog. Scientific truth is like a bullet that puts a hole across one's scull and literary truth is like the air that fills in the aftermath although you can still split the air into molecules. umashankarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04940072093576263799noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2102451431033041663.post-82833831857299305422013-01-27T07:57:47.856+05:302013-01-27T07:57:47.856+05:30Really scientific truths are the ones like two mol...Really scientific truths are the ones like two molecules of hydrogen and one molecule of oxygen form one molecule of water. A posteriori. Can be verified. Experimental.<br /><br />Falling of balcony also can be similarly verified if one needs such verification ;) But I agree one can also deduce it logically; hence a priori. Verifiable, nevertheless; hence scientific! That's what I meant. <br /><br />Such experimental verifiability does not exist in the kinds of truth that the literary and religious gurus teach. For example, Keats' words quoted in the blog (Beauty is truth...) would be absurd unless one understands it imaginatively. Tat tvam asi would be absurd similarly. 'The Kingdom of God is with you' would be absurd. And yet people have found much meaning and significance in such (scientifically) absurd statements. Why? That's what interests me. This blog tries to throw some light in that direction.<br /><br />Unless there were such imaginative or intuitive truths, there wouldn't have been any literature or art!Tomichan Matheikalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05037872309096060126noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2102451431033041663.post-42395579749174456872013-01-26T23:12:29.140+05:302013-01-26T23:12:29.140+05:30Matheikal, my problem is simply this ... supposing...Matheikal, my problem is simply this ... supposing I write on scientific truth (and I believe there is no such thing as scientific truth), I would not point out that religious or literary truth lacks in that respect. Unless it is a comparative exercise, I do not see scientific truth making any valid appearance in your post. Philosophy is a different matter as it is the fount of both religion and science. I do not understand how scientific truth is a posteriori. The truth is that if I walk off the balcony of my house, I will fall down. This is a priori truth, albeit of a decidedly mundane level. At a higher level, I can say that as the sun has risen everyday for 4 billion years, it will rise again tomorrow at a probability of (4 x 365 billion days) divided by (4 x 365) billion days + 1. This is a priori truth. If the sun blows up suddenly, I will know it only after about 8 minutes. This is a priori truth. <br /><br />Literary truths cannot but be at mundane levels, no matter how much spiritual veneer it takes on. If by truths you mean speculation then I would accept that. A J Iyer has argued a lot about what constitutes knowledge, but as far as I know he has not touched truth. I am going to leave it up to him and he is conveniently dead.<br /><br />No matter how much any one can discern what you call "deep truths", it cannot be conveyed to anyone else except on authority and that I tag as speculation.<br /><br />You have to come down from literary heights to explain to me what is meant by "Most truths of human life are imaginative/intuitive". Just because human beings can imagine/intuit, it does not mean human truths are imaginative.<br /><br />RE mandakolathurhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03774568024246167410noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2102451431033041663.post-33569186114235617122013-01-26T18:56:41.853+05:302013-01-26T18:56:41.853+05:30Raghuram, this blog is a literary approach to trut...Raghuram, this blog is a literary approach to truth. Even a religious approach, to some extent. Such truth is quite different from scientific truth which is a posteriori. Most truths of human life (living) are neither a priori nor a posteriori; they are imaginative/intuitive. Literature deals with those truths. Bulgakov and Keats are just two examples.Tomichan Matheikalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05037872309096060126noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2102451431033041663.post-74262284910536451492013-01-26T13:23:39.848+05:302013-01-26T13:23:39.848+05:30Matheikal, I thought that Pilate was verbally, ora...Matheikal, I thought that Pilate was verbally, orally dyslexic! (if that made any sense). I think I will respond to this post with a separate post wherein I will make my continuing argument, science is NOT truth, will not know truth even if hit on the head by truth. Science just keeps ontruckin' And, precisely where truth lies, in reaching for it. There is no place where whatever you mean by "deeper meaning" resides.<br /><br />RE<br />mandakolathurhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03774568024246167410noreply@blogger.com